Erectile dysfunction vacuum therapy news.

We welcome the Prime Minister. Prime Minister, good morning.

TONY BLAIR:
Good morning David.

DAVID FROST:
We have to start, I guess, with the subject of Ken Bigley. There’s no further news I gather?

TONY BLAIR:
No, there’s no further news at the moment at all. But we obviously are keeping very close contact, not just with the family but with the situation and doing whatever we can.

DAVID FROST:
And when you see the personal appeals that Ken Bigley’s made to you, and “help me Mr. Blair, you’re my only hoping of living, please let me live” and so on. What is your first reaction?

TONY BLAIR:
Well my first reaction is the reaction of anyone which is real sympathy for him and anger at how he’s being held by these people, and, you know the hope, the earnest hope that despite all the difficulties we can do something but I just don’t know whether we’re able to or not and, you know, as I’ve tried to say throughout, there’s no point in raising false hopes because of the nature of the people that we’re dealing with.

DAVID FROST:
This is one of those occasions, then, you’re saying really, when there’s a true limit to the power of a prime minister or a political leader and there’s a sense of being impotent really.

TONY BLAIR:
Well, Ken Bigley obviously could be released by the people holding him and that’s what we’d all like to see now. Insofar as it’s possible to do things we are doing them and I won’t go into the details of that for obvious reasons, but I mean we’re doing everything we properly and legitimately can and I think and hope people understand that.

DAVID FROST:
And what about other people sitting watching now and are supposed to go to Iraq as contractors or builders or aid workers. Would you urge them to go or not?

TONY BLAIR:
Well, anybody who goes, goes obviously under very strict conditions for their own security and that’s something that their own companies look after but also we give advice on.

It is important of course that the reconstruction work in Iraq goes on because what’s happening in Iraq at the moment is very clear. It think there are aid workers, construction workers, impotence injection buy online soft tab viagra, the presence of the troops there trying to help Iraqis made their country better, to help them make it a democracy. And the purpose of these terrorists is to stop it.

DAVID FROST:
And it reminds people that it is still a very lawless country obviously.

TONY BLAIR:
Well of course it’s very difficult, and I think that however the question is, what is our response to this situation.

You know, when I hear people say well because of the difficulties we should pull our troops out. My response to that is that that would be to surrender to the terrorists. That’s not what we should do. These people who are holding hostages in Iraq, these people who are conducting many of the killings of totally innocent people, are not actually Iraqis but people from outside.

They’re people linked to this global terrorism that we live in the midst of today who want to use Iraq as the battleground. Now, what we’ve got to do is to be in there and defeat them, and to work with the Iraqi people in order to build up their own capabilities but also make sure that we stay there until the job is done.

DAVID FROST:
While we’re on the subject of Iraq and how we got in and how we get out and so on. Do you, a tremendous number of people feel and you’ve sort of alluded to it, that they’re looking to you to say sorry for the way in which you uk viagra supplier misled the whole nation over the grounds for this war, the things you’re familiar with, no weapons of mass destruction,

Saddam was not co-operating with Al Qaeda. “Active, detailed and growing” was not true… was not true of the WMD programme, the 45-minute programme, earlier referred to battlefield weapons, and so on, the list goes on. Do you feel that you have an obligation to say sorry for that?

TONY BLAIR:
I did in the House of Commons when I said, look, some of the information that we acted upon was wrong. That he may have had intent and capability to develop these weapons and not the actual deploy of the weapons themselves. And I’ve said that already. The trouble is I think that …

DAVID FROST:
But there’s so many other bits to it now…

TONY BLAIR:
Well I mean we can go through each of those if we want to, but the fact is I think what people, or at least some people, want me to do, is actually say sorry for getting rid of Saddam. And that, I can’t say it, because I don’t believe that.

DAVID FROST:
No, you don’t believe that. But I mean you do agree that there were no weapons of mass destruction, Saddam didn’t have links with Al Qaeda.

TONY BLAIR:
Actually, it was never part of our case that Saddam was somehow responsible for the 11th September.

DAVID FROST:
No, I agree with that bit. But there was a lot of talk in the coalition about the fact that there was a link, a clear link. And the Americans talked about it a lot too. I mean, David Kay said we were all wrong about …

TONY BLAIR:
Yes, but he also went on to say, just so that people understand that Saddam was obviously in breach of UN resolutions, and undoubtedly retained the intention and desire to build such weapons whether the sanctions eroded or the inspectors left.

Now, look, I’m not using that incidentally, to diminish the fact that the information, some of it, the intelligence upon which we founded our case, has turned out to be wrong. What I simply say to people is, that I am perfectly happy to say, and should say, because I take responsibility for it and I take responsibility for that wrong information.

The difficulty is when people want me to go a step further as many people do, and say what we actually should have done in March 2003, is have backed away from the conflict. I don’t believe we should have done that and I know, and I think this is really the core of it. When people look at the situation in Iraq now and they see all the difficulties, there are two responses.

Either your response is, well this is a terrible mess and we should never have been there - or your response, which is mine, is this is an attempt by people, many of whom are linked to this very global terrorism and the security threat we face, to stop Iraq becoming a stable prosperous democracy. And our job is to stay in there and help the Iraqi people, help those people who are helping them, to make their country a democracy. And in doing that of course we will deal a huge blow to that global terrorism.

DAVID FROST:
Yes, but you agree that the weapons programme was not “active, detailed and growing” as you told the House of Commons, because it was obviously faded away.

TONY BLAIR:
The intelligence that we had for the actual deployable weapons has turned out to be wrong. Now, as I say, occasionally what people do though is lurch to the other extreme and say well there was no question of them being in breach of UN resolutions.

DAVID FROST:
Even if those things had been known by you when you went to Crawford in April 2002 all those things were not true including above all the weapons of mass destruction. Would you still have recommended to President Bush that the two of you go ahead with the war when you’d taken the main motives away?

TONY BLAIR:
Just let me elucidate one thing to you about this Crawford because I keep reading the fact that what we actually agreed there was that we would go to war regardless.

That is not the case, what we agreed to do was to go back to the United Nations, insist inspectors were allowed back in and of course they only came back in because of the presence of UK and US troops down there, and made sure that this time Saddam complied fully with the UN inspection regime. Now that’s what we agreed to do and that’s what we did.

DAVID FROST:
But at the same time, would you have recommended going to war, really, if you’d known that all those things were not true. You certainly couldn’t have sold the House of Commons on it. So you would have failed to go war but would you have tried to go to war?

TONY BLAIR:
Well I’m not sure about that. I think that what we could well have persuaded people of that Saddam remained a threat. I believe he remained a threat.

I believe the world is a better and safer place without him and his sons running Iraq. And, you know, occasionally again you read things that almost suggest that before March 2003 Iraq was some sort of benign place, and it was a place where literally thousands of people were being killed by the regime.

As the prime minister of Iraq was saying the other day to the UN, 300,000 people discovered in mass graves, millions of people refugees from the country, 60% of it on food aid and this is somebody who had used WMD against his own people and neighbouring countries. So, you know, if people……

DAVID FROST:
18 years before.

TONY BLAIR:
Well it wasn’t.

DAVID FROST:
15 years before, 16 years - 1988 to 2004 now, 16 years before.

TONY BLAIR:
Yes but after that of course the UN inspectors, and just remember this, the UN inspectors who had come into Iraq first in 1991, had been there for four years, had concluded that there weren’t such WMD programmes, only for Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law to defect to Jordan and actually indicate that there were such programmes anywhere. We can go back over that, ad infinitum.

DAVID FROST:
One brief PS to that, what did you think when you read that Kofi Annan had confirmed that your actions and the actions of the United States were contrary to the UN Charter and illegal?

TONY BLAIR:
Well of course we don’t accept that their actions were illegal for the reasons that we gave at the time. I mean I haven’t actually studied in detail what Kofi said but I think the important thing now is to recognise that we’ve got a job to do in rebuilding Iraq and we’ve got to get on and do that.

DAVID FROST:
Coming on to that Prime Minister, Sir Jeremy Greenstock when I was asking him why it appeared that we were so ill-prepared for the morning after and the events after the war. And he said well there were warnings but they were not heeded. Some of us were taken by surprise, some weren’t.

There were different analyses and those making decisions which was Washington, chose the wrong analysis. And Colonel Tim Collins, one of our heroes said there was very little preparation or thought given to what would follow on after the invasion itself.

Evidence will show that the preparations for a free and fair Iraq weren’t made and nature abhors a vacuum. Everybody says we were ill-prepared after the war. That’s true, isn’t?

TONY BLAIR:
I don’t accept that I’m afraid, no. I mean I do accept that there was one, there was probably one as I said before, one error that was made which is that I think in retrospect, to disband the Iraqi army in its entirety and to de-Ba’athify, in other words to remove all elements of the Ba’ath Party from positions of authority in Iraq, was done too quickly. I mean, simply at the time of course there was enormous pressure to do that.

But the things that we were preparing against before the invasion of Iraq, were one a humanitarian crisis, that’s the thing that people feared most, that didn’t actually happen in the end. Secondly was the notion that you had to replace Saddam Hussein not with another dictator, but with a democracy.

Now in trying to achieve that of course, that was done with the United Nations which is why we went back to the United Nations and got a fresh resolution.

DAVID FROST:
But what were the other mistakes, I mean, was it a mistake not having more troops trained in peace-keeping on the ground? Or not having more troops just for that purpose? Or not closing the borders immediately or what?

TONY BLAIR:
Of course, we had a very large number of troops down there and still do. But the real point is this, in the end this can only be done by the Iraqis themselves. And what we’re doing is we’ve got a huge programme now, to train Iraqi police, Iraqi security people, the Iraqi army.

So that they’re not instruments of oppression but can actually restore order to their country. Now if you take a place like Najaf for example, which was where there was all the trouble a few weeks ago. Actually what’s happened is that the outside terrorists and others and the militias have been cleaned out of Najaf and the place can now go forward. And, look it will be a difficult process this.

You’re talking about a country that was a completely failed, collapsing state, held together only by the brutality and oppression of Saddam Hussein. And what has happened, the one thing that we did not figure on to the extent that I think surprised everybody, is the degree to which outside terrorists - because as I say, a lot of these people, this man Al Zarqawi is not an Iraqi. Many of the people doing the suicide bombing, killing the innocent people in Iraq, are not Iraqis.

They’ve come in from the outside because what they believe, I think in a sense, rightly from their own somewhat warped perspective, what they believe is, if we succeed in Iraq, or indeed in Afghanistan, in bringing democracy to countries that were dictatorships, that’s a huge blow to their propaganda. Their whole case is the purpose of American-British action is to suppress Muslim people.

DAVID FROST:
But what’s your best hope for this election, (a) that you still hope it will be held on time, and if two-thirds of the Iraqi people are able to vote, is that success? Or half…

TONY BLAIR:
I’m not anticipating that anyone’s going to be refused a vote. Now that’s obviously you know there may be particular areas of Iraq where the security situation’s particularly difficult and acute, but let me just tell you something.

When we did, as we do regularly, polling of Iraqi people recently and asked them whether they wanted to vote in the election, over 90% said they wanted to vote and indeed round about a third of them said even if there was substantial violence around the place they were going to be voting, they wanted to vote. These people want democracy.

And the important point to make David is this, this is what I feel that is the single most important missing dimension of this argument now. If we manage to stabilise Iraq and give it the chance, as its people want, to become a democracy, that will be of huge importance to our own security.

Not just to the security of the Middle East but to security here. Because this world-wide movement of global terrorism, it is in Iraq, it’s in Afghanistan. We’ve seen what it’s done in Bali, in Beslan, in Madrid, in scores of other incidents round the world. And part of defeating it is actually to show that the propaganda of these terrorists is wrong.

DAVID FROST:
But one of the points that people make is that it wasn’t Al Qaeda or whatever the terrorist organisation umbrella you care to use. It was not in Iraq, not in Iraq until we got there. So we brought …

TONY BLAIR:
Actually it’s not …

DAVID FROST:
Accidentally, indirectly into Iraq…

TONY BLAIR:
It’s not in fact correct that Al Zarqawi was not in Iraq as I think the Butler Report indicates, he was in Iraq before the conflict began.

However, it is true they have moved in since the conflict began, and since Saddam Hussein was toppled. That’s true, they’ve moved in there. But the question is why they moved in. Why are they trying to kill Iraqis joining a police force, kill aid workers, kill anyone trying to make the country better?

And I think the difficulty of this situation is these people have a very clear strategy as to what they’re doing. And that is to bomb and kill anybody who’s trying to make the country better. Now our response to that surely has got to be to stop them, not to give in to it.

DAVID FROST:
John Kerry said that this whole campaign, he was talking about Bush but he was talking about the whole campaign, that President Bush and by inference your good self, has misled, miscalculated and mismanaged every aspect of the undertaking. It would be difficult working with him if he were to win the election, and he feels that.

TONY BLAIR:
I think that, I shall probably let the American people decide their election. I was very interested to hear the exchange you just had but I think we should, you know I’ve got enough to worry about with my politics without worrying about theirs. People say all sorts of things in the election campaigns, so there you are.

DAVID FROST:
I thought you might say that, I thought you might say that. Donald Rumsfeld - this is not an election issue, said surprisingly on Friday that American troops could be withdrawn while the chaos continues because he says Iraq has never been peaceful and perfect and it isn’t likely to be. Is the same true of British troops, can they come back while the chaos continues?

TONY BLAIR:
Actually, I actually heard what he actually said in detail, and what he was really saying was this.

Look, if there is not an absolutely perfect peace it doesn’t mean to say you know if the Iraqis have got their own capabilities to deal with whatever is there, then that’s not a reason for keeping your troops there, if the Iraqis don’t want them. You know, remember our troops remain there now only with the consent of the Iraqi government.

He’s not suggesting, you know, we’re going to get out before the job’s done and I can assure you we are not going to get out before the job is done. But it is the Iraqis, you know, in the end the Iraqi government decide whether we stay or we don’t.

TONY BLAIR:
Coming back to more local issues, a question about Northern Ireland. David Trimble was here last Sunday, or in the studio in London, and he was really quite optimistic about the progress that had been made. Since then it seems to have slowed again. Are you optimistic or pessimistic this Sunday morning?

TONY BLAIR:
Well I’m a natural optimist, whether that’s justified when you look at the history of Northern Ireland. I think it is actually, in the sense that I think Northern Ireland’s made great progress and I think there is a real feeling there that people want an enduring and lasting peace.

I think that both sides there really know that this idea of resolving this through conflict is over and I think everyone’s making big efforts. I think the Republicans have come an enormous way and are really doing their best to try and bring about an enduring peace.

And I hope we can make sure that over the coming weeks the Republicans and Nationalists and the Unionists manage to make a lasting agreement but I think the prospects are reasonable, but in the end it’s only they that can do this. We can help but we can’t do it.

DAVID FROST:
Is reasonable 50-50?

TONY BLAIR:
I’m not quite sure what to say about odds.

DAVID FROST:
Right.

TONY BLAIR:
If I say 50-50 does that mean it’s going to happen or it’s not going to happen.

DAVID FROST:
It means we don’t know.

TONY BLAIR:
Well that’s probably right there.

DAVID FROST:
That’s the correct answer on anything to do with Ireland.

TONY BLAIR:
However, I do think, I think the one thing that is very, very important is that I certainly got the sense that there is a genuine change in the sense that everybody recognises that peace is the only way forward in Northern Ireland. No one wants to go back to the troubles.

DAVID FROST:
And in terms of hunting. Are you facing a possibility of hunters versus police on horseback, or is there still a possible compromise that you might be able to find in the next week or two?

TONY BLAIR:
Well I mean I hope that there’s no confrontation between people because the law should be upheld and obeyed. I mean, as you know, last year there was Alun Michael, who comes in for a lot of stick but actually did an amazing job with a very long consultation process to try and find a compromise and get a way through it. Unfortunately it was voted against by the Commons and then blocked by the Lords. So…

DAVID FROST:
I bet you wish that you’d never put it in the manifesto in the first place, with all the grief it’s cause.

TONY BLAIR:
You know it was an issue, it’s got to be decided. But I mean I think, I mean obviously there are lots more important issues to talk about. But on the other hand we did promise that we would resolve it this parliament, we’ve got to resolve that now. As I say it’s gone through the Commons and it’s up in the Lords now.

DAVID FROST:
So there’s no way really now to avoid having to invoke the Parliament Act then?

TONY BLAIR:
Well it depends what happens in the House of Lords. But I mean, the point that I’m making to us is, this has been something where we’ve been trying to resolve for years and frankly you’ve got to come to a decision one way or another. And there was a very honourable attempt to find a compromise last year.

DAVID FROST:
And what about pensions? That really is perhaps your key issue for the next election. To get pensions right, maybe get rid of means testing because only three out of 5 million people are entitled and actually go through the process and so on.

TONY BLAIR:
Well I think, you know, we obviously, it’s perfectly natural we should have spent a significant amount of time on Iraq. But I think that this week will see as set out, a very strong agenda for the future. We’ve got a strong economy. We’ve got low levels of unemployment, we’ve got massive investment going into our public services.

People can see that because of their local hospital or local school, got record numbers of police. But there’s a massive amount to do, there’s pensions as you rightly say, which is really about people now saving for their retirement. There’s giving people affordable childcare, that’s absolutely vital for people trying to match together work and family life.

There’s making sure that our young people get proper opportunities which is making proposals to eradicate the remainder of youth unemployment. It means also we help first-time buyers and John Prescott’s going to be setting out how we help, you know, young families to do that today. And it means also that in respect of the public services that we have, that we’re giving people excellent public services not just the basics.

DAVID FROST:
And would you be in favour of a complete ban on smoking in all public places like they have in Ireland?

TONY BLAIR:
Well we’re going to publish a proposal on this in the next few weeks, or it may even be a few days.

DAVID FROST:
What is it going to say?

TONY BLAIR:
But I think we’d better wait until that happens.

DAVID FROST:
No no, you’re not sure what it’s going to say.

TONY BLAIR:
It’s not that I’m not sure what it’s going to say, but I think it should be announced in the proper way by John Reid. I mean I, look, personally what I think about this. I mean you’ve got to be careful that you don’t, you know you don’t go over the top with these issues.

On the other hand if you ask me personally, if I’m in a pub or a restaurant do I prefer it to be smoke-free, the answer’s yes. So you’ve got to try and find a balance there.

DAVID FROST:
By the way, why didn’t you vote on that hunting thing this week? Apparently your team were very upset that you didn’t vote on hunting this week.

TONY BLAIR:
I mean, for reasons I’ve just pointed out. I mean there was a compromise proposal last year and that was the one I backed.

DAVID FROST:
So you would have backed the compromise. But you don’t back the version that’s going ahead now?

TONY BLAIR:
I mean, I am trying to make sure that we can resolve the issue. That’s what I am trying to do.

DAVID FROST:
So you would comprise.

TONY BLAIR:
No I’ve always said if you can’t get a compromise. No if you can’t find a compromise I mean I’ve always spoken in favour of a ban so there it is. So we’ll just have to see what happens.

DAVID FROST:
And what about all this stuff, god there’s a lot of it about, you were talking about…

TONY BLAIR:
You thought you were being urged to cross-examine me on earlier. To be honest I don’t read it anymore.

DAVID FROST:
No, what I was going…you don’t?

TONY BLAIR:
I don’t actually. I really don’t.

DAVID FROST:
If someone says there’s nice article today in the Observer.

TONY BLAIR:
When did it say that? (laughter) There’s not many times when they bounce in in the morning and say, there’s a really nice piece about you Prime Minister here. Well that’s the job isn’t it.

DAVID FROST:
Well the thing we all keep reading and people are intrigued about, is whether you really did have a wobble and think seriously about standing down as Prime Minister, that the wobble was in April or May it said, and the standing-down was going to be at the end of the year. And that you really did consider that, either in the dark night of the soul or in the daylight. But that you did seriously consider stepping down.

TONY BLAIR:
No. No I’m not the wobbling sort as you might have noticed.

DAVID FROST:
So you’ve never wobbled.

TONY BLAIR:
No. And you know as I say, what happens in…I mean part of the trouble when you’re existing at our level in politics, is that for perfectably understandable reasons a huge interest in what I call the soap opera of politics, and what that means is basically, as you know, there are hundreds of journalists around Westminster, chasing thousands of people with bits of information they think they have. It’s just the way it is. You just get on with the job…

DAVID FROST:
I think I read 137 times at least that at the famous peacemaking dinner given by John Prescott last November, that you then promised Gordon that you’d stand down by the end of this year.

TONY BLAIR:
As I’ve always said, you don’t do deals about this job. And I think I remember you asking me all about this the last time we met.

DAVID FROST:
We haven’t talked about it for two or three interviews, but now it’s all back all over the place. 61% are dissatisfied with your performance as Prime Minister. Are you dissatisfied with your performance as Prime Minister?

TONY BLAIR:
I’ll tell you what I am actually. I’m restless to do more and to do better. I mean I think we have done a good job for the country. I mean of course I’d say that and I believe it.

I think if you look at the economy it’s stronger, the investment in our public services matters, we’ve lifted literally hundreds of thousands of people out of poverty. And I think with anti-social behaviour legislation, in particular, we’re beginning to make a real dent on the law and order problem. But there’s masses more to do, you know I’ve got the asylum issue finally to sort out properly.

There’s drugs and crime and organised crime. There’s making sure that our education system isn’t simply now as it is now, up amongst the best in Europe but the best in Europe. There’s making sure that our economy doesn’t just give people jobs, any jobs, but gives people a chance for a career. There’s massive amounts still to do, so I want to do it.

DAVID FROST:
Yes. And in terms of that first of all obviously your people predict you will, but you’ve got to win the next election. When I read about it…

TONY BLAIR:
You don’t guarantee that, you’ve got to go out and work for it.

DAVID FROST:
And overall you’re the boss obviously. But in terms of this campaign, who is senior, Alan Millburn or Gordon Brown?

TONY BLAIR:
Well again I don’t quite understand…

DAVID FROST:
Who reports to who?

TONY BLAIR:
… the issue because, I mean Gordon, I’ve no doubt or will carry on doing in the next election what he did in the last two elections.

DAVID FROST:
Well what will Alan Millburn do?

TONY BLAIR:
Well that is not Alan’s job. Alan’s job is to co-ordinate policy around government, against government, around government. And also to make sure that we plan the election campaign.

Now he took over from Douglas Alexander who’s done a very good job. But I wanted someone more senior to come in.

DAVID FROST:
Oh, I see, so in fact just like last time, Gordon basically ran the campaign last time. And he’ll basically run the campaign again this time.

TONY BLAIR:
He will do exactly what he’s always done. And he does it absolutely excellently and brilliantly and that’s how it should be.

And it’s important to recognise that we’ve come a long way in part because of the tremendous contribution he’s made to running the economy. He’s done a great job for us. And a great job for the country.

DAVID FROST:
And when you read that you haven’t spoken, the two of you, for three months, or only twice in three months. Is like like that?

TONY BLAIR:
No, it’s not like that at all.

DAVID FROST:
No.

TONY BLAIR:
You know, you can’t do this job unless you’re actually working closely with the people around you. And we do work closely. It’s why as I say, we’ve managed I think, you know I mean I meet people the country over who, despite what you read in parts of the media, can see the difference a Labour government’s made.

You know I was meeting some people the other day up in my own constituency and we were sitting around talking about the issues.

And I suddenly thought, you know, 20 years ago when I first started as a member of parliament, the only thing we’d have talked about was unemployment. We’ve got the lowest unemployment rate now of any of the major countries in the world. We’ve got the highest levels of employment we’ve ever had now.

That’s not good enough actually, you want in fact not jobs you want quality jobs. But it’s a great achievement.

DAVID FROST:
So, as a non-contentious phrase, right, you would say that you view Gordon as your natural successor.

TONY BLAIR:
I think I’ve already, again, often said these things. But I think it would not be helpful to back into all this again if you don’t mind. I’ve always said…

DAVID FROST:
And you said there was no deal two or three times ago when we were here?

TONY BLAIR:
Yes, I think what is important is that we both get on with, you know, doing the job of government rather than… I know they’re all out there waiting for the headlines, they want to write. But I’d prefer to be talking about the future of the country.

DAVID FROST:
Well, funny enough my last question was going to be about that. What of all the things we’ve talked about this morning, is the most urgent, apart from Iraq. In terms of domestic policy what one is most urgent.

TONY BLAIR:
I still think the biggest single passion for the government has got to be education.

And I think the most important thing for us now is to give the same energy to vocational education and skills that we’ve given to university education, and to academic education.

And I still think that is the critical thing. If you look round the world today, the countries that succeed do so on the basis of knowledge and skill.

DAVID FROST:
Prime Minister, you’re in Brighton and I hope you have a lovely relaxing week.

TONY BLAIR:
Lovely possibly, relaxing I should think not but thank you very much.

NB: this transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.

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